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Thursday, June 1. 2006Last year I decided to make a solar pool heater. The main idea came from reading a variety of forums, old Mother Earth News articles, and checking out some old newsgroups. It seemed that others had had some success creating solar heaters in a variery of methods, from something as complex as a custom built metal heat exchanger to something as simple as a bale of irrigation hose sitting on a slope. I decided to aim somewhat inbetween these extremes and came up with a solar "panel" consisting of a 4'x4' plywood sheet on a frame with as much irrigation hose as I could coil onto the surface I've added a diagram to show the piping clearly, and added a bit more description at the end of the article... Basically, it consists of about 200' of irrigation hose held to a 3/4" plywood 4x4 sheet with pipe brackets screwed down. The whole thing is propped up with legs at more-or-less the optimal angle for my location, and pointing more-or-less south. The inside of the frame was painted flat black, and the copper pipe brackets were painted flat black as well, after the thing was together. I put it on patio bricks this year to make it easier to mow around Here is the 'T' off the pump. This is after the chlorinator, to hopefully keep the nastiness build-up in the hose away. I also added a ball valve in the line, which is super helpful in keeping the flow through the heater to a trickle. This allows the water to get hotter in the pipe, and maintain some thermal mass. The back. Note the lovely collapsible legs for easy winter storage... And always inelegant, the tie-wrapped outlet hose. I keep meaning to fabricate a nice contoured pipe that can come up the side, around the cap and point down inside at the wall so no water ever gets on the solar blanket, but just don't seem to get around to it. Lastly, a couple of closeups of the coil itself. The first shows the final elbow that goes through the plywood and out. I couldn't get the irrigation hose coiled any smaller without it starting to kink, so this is where I stopped. When I started I kept each pipe clamp with its own screws. By hand, and my cordless drill tended to overtighten the screw and I was afraid I would damage the pipe with the metal bracket. By the time I had gone around two or three times I realized I could share a screw between two pipe clamps. The other option would have been to use metal strapping. Under noon sun, the water coming out is about 2C warmer than the inlet with the flow I valve down to. After one day of sun it pulled the pool up from 18C to 22C (it was 30C out that day), and in three days I had the pool at 28C. I am still looking for a 4x4 plexiglass to cover the coils, as I know allot of heat is lost if there is any wind blowing across them, at all. People have asked for a better diagram showing how this is connected, so now that I have played with Inkscape a bit more, I doodled up the following: The normal pump flow follows the blue line. Water is sucked from the skimmer by the pump, pushed through the filter, through the auto-chlorinator, then into the pool. The ball valve T I added is after the chlorinator. When in bypass, all the water flows as if there were no heater. I turn the ball valve enough to allow some of the water to flow through the heater. I don't push it all through the heater, as it puts too much stress on the pump. I just keep adjusting it while watching the pressure gauge on the filter, and stop if it starts to move up. Hope the extra explanation was useful.
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I did the same kind of construction for my solar pool heater, except that I made it out of 2 4x8 sheets. I live in Canada so not a lot of sun. Anyways, don't use plexiglass to cover the box becasue plexiglass turns yellow with UV rays. You need to use some other plastic that has UV Enhancer built in it. Check for "Plastic" in the telephone book to find a distributor.
I'm in Canada too, but almost as far south as you can be and still be in Canada
With 4 times the surface area you must get great heating!
Rob, I cannot get the black irrogation hpose. Does 1/2 PVC pipe work? What lenght should I use. How about the 90º elbows?
Leo in Panama
PVC, even painted black, is not a great absorber for solar heat. Rubber hose, or aluminum painted black, is better.
I just went to Home Depot and Lowe's, couldn't find that type of hose you were talking about. The stuff they had seemed too rigid, like hard plastic.
Is the material you speak of flexible? Is it rubber? Gonna try Carter Lumber on monday.
I found a website hosexpress.com that has that food grade polyethylene tubing. $100.00 for 500 ft. of the 1/2" size.
No luck at Carter Lumber, or Tractor Supply. Has anyone in the U.S.A. been able to find this polyethylene tubing?
Just want to know how you drain this for winter storage.
I too, live in Canada.....Pembroke, ON. actually. I'm interested in constructing the heater as you described, but I would like more info as to pipe size. Also, is the pipe you used just simple poly, plastic stuff available at home depot for example?
Great plans! BTW, I couldn't get the pix to enlarge by clicking on them ![]() Dennis
Hey Dennis -
The pipe is irrigarion pipe from Home Depot. It is fairy thin walled, so will kink if you bend it too sharply. I changed the popups to be new pages, so hopefully that will work for you. -Rob A>
Thank you very much. This seems to be a really great idea that can help me get my Canadian pool heated without paying as much as I used to for my gas heater.
I am trying to get a better sense of how to identify the irrigation pipe that farmers use. At first, it seemed to me to be just black garden hose. When I enlarged the photos I was able the read "20mm PE 75 PSI@23C Food grade, White stripe". I believe I will be able to identify the pipe at Home Depot or a garden centre by finding black 1/2" pipe (20mm) that has a white stripe down it. Is this correct?
The tubing I have is the white strip polyethylene tubing from Home Depot. It's 1/2"PE food grade tubing and says 12 mm on it, not 20 mm which would be 3/4".
Polyethylene is strong and flexible and is not likely to be damaged from freezing.
I found the direction to get "irrigation pipe" at Home Depot a bit frustrating. When I asked for it there, I was told that they didn't sell that. Later, I looked closer and found that the pipe shown in the pictures was labeled and I asked for that. Still, some Home Depot associates told me they did not sell that product. However, a buddy reassured me that they did sell it. I looked again and found it in abundance there. If you look for the product, "IPEX 018200
20mm (1/2") PE 75 PSI(White stripe) STD PIPE WITH THE STRIPE" you will find irrigation pipe. On my last trip to Home Depot, the associate even said, "Oh yah, ya mean irrigation pipe." I said, "Yah, that's it."
#2.1.1.1.1
Michael Newell
on
2008-07-19 12:25
(Reply)
oops. Yah, you're right. 20mm would be about 3/4". 12mm is more like it. But the photo does show 20mm pipe. Interesting.
#2.1.1.1.2
Michael Newell
on
2008-07-19 12:37
(Reply)
I found LDPE black polyethylene tubing resistant to sunlight and uv and also polyehylene flexible pipe nsf and not nsf listed that is not uv resistant. Since this will be in the sun all day on my roof heating water which would be better to use. I found them at usplastic.com.
I have folowed this model to develop my own. I am using 500 feet of 3/4" 75 psi piping. The water that comes out of the heater is 6-8 degrees F warmer than the water coming in. Since the flow is 6 1/2 liters per minute (measured)(so 390 liters per hour) and my pool contains 39,000 liters of water, I can expect to raise the water temp by about one degree per day (if it is sunny, of course!)
A link to pictures: http://www.cogev.com/gallery/Oka-pool
Hi,
Im in Calgary and thinking about doing the same type of heater but using an old 7 or 8 ft satellite dish and painting it back, what do you think? Brian
That would be clever! My only worry would be the weight of all that water, and whether the dish frame would support it. Might need a support or two.
-Rob A>
This looks great! Thanks for sharing!
Instead of using plexi, what about covering the entire thing with either a black plastic sheet or black ground-cover fabric (you know, the stuff normally used to keep weeds from growing up in your garden). It would hide the hose and maybe even conduct more heat.
That would help, but only a bit. The real need is to prevent wind from cooling the pipes. The ultimate would be to encapsulate the whole thing in some kind of epoxy to get a decent thermal mass. Ever notice how long it takes a south facing brick wall, or even a patio, to cool down on a summer night?
Hey I'm wondering would a plain old piece of glass work for that? I have a 4' x 8' piece of glass from replacing a picture window. Do you think if I made a 4'x8' solar assembly similar to yours it would work?
Just make sure it is tempered/safety glass. You wouldn't want any nasty accidents to happen.
I also went with 4x4 because built on a 4x8 it would be pretty heavy, and I roll it around the yard to drain at season's end (the one problem with a spiral). Good luck and send us a link to a photo when it is complete! -Rob A>
I have built a very simlar one with 2 - 100' rolls of 1/2" pipe coiled into each 4 x4 sheet- I have a large inground pool and use 4 of these boxes in series. At year end when I take them down I use a portable air compressor and blow the water out inplace of rolling them around -it works great as long as you are not standing in front of the other end....
I am thinking of using plexiglass to cover the boxes and to put them up on my pool shed roof (more sunlight) - any ideas or suggestions on how to mount them to the roof and and ideas on thickness of plexiglass that would work best here
Really great idea.
Just a few reflections of I wonder.... 1. If the hose were smaller but longer, producing a slower flow, would the output temperature be greater? 2. If the backing on the frame was lined with a thin wall aluminum or copper coating, would there be a higher heat conduction and ability to hold the heat at a higher level on the piping?
If the hose were longer it would heat more (to a point). The heat gained would be relative to the length of time the water gets exposed. I achieve a similar effect by valving down the water to reduce the flow. The only real way to increase the heat conduction is to increase the surface of the pipe exposed to a hot mass. That means closing the panel over, so the hot air space can be better maintained, or filling the whole thing with a material that can act as a thermal mass. I might try filling the whole thing with clay to see how much more heat gain I get, but it would increase the mass significantly.
Hi mate,
Really inspired by your project here, going to make my own! Couple of questions you may be able to help with: 1. I've got a standard filter pump that came with the pool, do you think that will be enough to pump the water through all the pipe or do I need a pretty heavy duty pump? 2. Do I need special irrigation pipe or can I just use any old black pipe or even hose pipe painted black? Thanks, Ben.
Hey Ben - All I use is the pump that came with my pool. It is a little on the large size, as the same pump can be used with a larger pool, so I didn't need to ad another pump. The key is the back-pressure. I have a gauge on my filter, and the there is not noticeable difference from no filter. might be the way I am plumbed.....I'll throw up a diagram in the next couple of days to show my plumbing.
-Rob A>
Hi,
I have a in ground pool and a propane heater that sits beside a 10 x 12 foot pool house. I am thinking of splicing the line just before the water heater and running a return line to the roof of my pool house, where I would construct some sort of PVC return unit covered in glass or PVC. My question is do you think that I should downsize the pipe gage coming off the water heater going up to the roof in order to maintain pressure (10 feet) ?
Im looking to make somthing very similar, however instead of hooking the solar heater up to the filter system why not go to your local DIY shop and buy a solar fountain or pump and hook it up to that.
Hi Owen - It would work perfectly well to add a second pump just for circulating heating, it would just use more electricity and cost additional dollars. The advantage might be that you could run the heating pump (small size, reduced flow) in the day, and run the filter pump at night, off peak, assuming your local power utility gives reduced hydro rates for off-peak use...
I'm doing this soon, also. Thank you for having just what I was looking for when I googled..
I originally thought of running several hundred feet of 5/8" PVC/irrigation hose across the roof of my front porch that gets full sun all day. i figured the radiant heat from the shingles combined with the heat absorbed from the sun would work more efficiently than this spiral design. I've not yet began my project yet.. Any thoughts on radiant heat from the rooftop?
Jeremy - In my not-so-professional opinion, you should be able to benefit from the thermal mass provided by asphalt shingles, after all most commercial heaters are mounted on the roof to leverage the flat space, angle, and out-of the-way location. The only issue would be securing the hose in way that it doesn't slide or tear off, especially in high winds. And remember, adding things onto a permanent structure could be regulated by building codes in your area....
Love the idea, will have to try it out! Just wondering, do you think clear tubing would work any better?
I'm also planning on using something clear to cover it (perhaps an acrylic sheet) since things like that tend to let light in but not heat out.
Chris - I have been told that black pipes are the best to soak up the maximum heat. Covering the surface is a very good idea, as well, to prevent the wind from cooling the pipes, as you get a hot air pocket. If there are spaces between the pipes it would be best to have the background reflective, to bounce back any light that passed by the pipes and hopefully hit them the second time, rather than soaking into the background.
Rob - Love your work. Plan to replicate it as soon as I can. Could you post a diagram or explanation of your piping in and out of pump/heater/pool? I'm not sure I understand the bypass valve.
AI think you can get more heating and put less stress on your pump - the sun is delivering energy to the tubing at the same rate whether you have high or low flow. You want as much of that heat to get into your pool as possible. So turn the flow up, not down. (Imagine if you were able to extract all of the heat from your pipes - they'd be cool to the touch. That would mean you were doing the best job of taking heat out of the collector and depositing it in the pool.) As long as you are drawing water out of the pool and putting it through the collector you want as much flow as possible. One caveat - insulate all the lines from the collector to the pool with those black pipe insulators you can get at the hardware store. And finally, the black pipe is absorbing the sun's radiated energy to conduct it into the water. Water is not as efficient at absorbing infrared light, so don't use clear tubing. OK, one more thought. Resistance to flow (and the work your pump has to do) is related to the length of the tubing. If you want a lot of tubing, consider reducing the resistance by breaking up the length into more than one circuit and connecting them in parallel in a manifold at the pump.
Some good points there, Bob. Thanks for the clarification on clear pipe. A few responses.... As explained (now) I pass as much water through the heater as I can without causing too much back-pressure on the pump. Also, I didn't make a manifold/parallel pipe system as that requires a whole bunch of T's and glue (if using PVC) or solder (if using copper) any my point was to go as cheap as possible. (After all if I had the cash I would have just bought a unit, he, he).
Hey all
been reading all your coments and i think there all great I am going to try and make this at the weekend ready for the summer I live in the uk so dont get that much sun , I have brought 30 meters of black rubber 1/2 inch airline hose. will let you know how i get on. was thinking would it be better to cover the bOard in black rubber sheets AS rubber absorbs heat well instead of just painting it black ?
Wow I can't believe it! I made one nearly exactly like this last year except mine is 4'x8' and my coil is actually a snaking back and forth instead of concentric coils. That way it drained pretty easily at the end of the summer. When I first hooked it up I got about a 18 degree F raise in water temperature inlet to output. However, I don't think it actually raised the pool temp more than a degree or two. Just too little flow volume. Mine is also not covered because I'm trying to keep it as dirt cheap as possible and the plexi is so expensive. However, this summer I'm going to try covering the entire thing with Saran Wrap and see if it makes a difference. Should be able to cover the entire 32 sft for a buck or two.
Hey Danny - I was going to snake back and forth, but the pipe I used wasn't that flexible. So right on the draining issue. Even after blowing it out, I have to roll the whole thing around the yard several times to drain it
. Good thing I was 4x4 because I could never have rolled a 4x8 panel. Don't bother with Saran Wrap. I used some clear construction poly and even that go torn off by the wind is short order, so I think something more durable is necessary. Another suggestion made was to "fill" the areas around the pipes with concrete to make a large thermal mass....but then I'd never be able to move the thing.
i am having a really hard time finding irrigation hose i have purchased some 3/4 inside diameter pvc tubing but i was wondering if i returned that and went with a 1/2 inside diameter tubing instead. What was your inside or outside diameter of the tube and what store was it purchased at becuase i went to home depot and rona or revy and they i ask for irriegation tubing and all they show me is a tube with some holes in it.
thank you for all your effort on this and i apperciate your help.
I'm in the UK where it's been 21c/70f every day for the last week, but it is often too cloudy for a solar heater to be productive.
I'm trying to figure out a cheap way of turning the pump on and off when the level of sun light drops, or when night falls. Solar powered pumps are expensive, and professional solar controllers are even more expensive. I was considering using a small photovoltaic cell to measure the level of light, but then need to turn the mains powered (240v) pump on and off. Has anyone got any suggestions or observations please.
Hi Tim - Just search many of the home automation sites for controlling devices. The only issue here might be the pump pulls a pretty good current so you would need a heavy duty relay or contactor. BTW, I run my pump with a programmable block heater timer, so it only runs from 11:00 until 4:00. That is enough time to recirculate all my pool water, and is the best heating time. And remember, there is still solar radiation making it through on a cloudy day!
Thanks for the quick reply, Rob. I'm also in the UK and I'm finding it difficult to source a 'T' Valve to take water off the return hose from the filter to the pool. Anybody in the UK who knows where I might find one? The return hose is 1 1/4" diameter, and a black hose I've found is 1/2" diameter. I guess it would be out of the question to just compress all of the returning water into the one black hose? Would that put too much strain on the pump? (I don't know exactly what the capacity of the pump is, but it's between 500-2000 l/hour! A 12ft Intex Easy-Set pool)
My pool has a clay paver surround. Due to orientation and where the people accumulate etc, one long side of the pool is rarely used. I have noticed during summer that you just can't walk on this side of the pool due to the heat in the pavers. Even with wet feet you can't go more than two meters, which explains why nobody uses it. Through the cooler months there is heat but not as much.
My questions for the group are: 1 - What are the ramifications of coiling the pipes directly on the pavers ? Will it work ? Do I need a black backing ? How can I contain the pipes to a shape and still utilise the heat of the pavers ? 2 - Also, I have noticed the pavers are noticably colder than the surrounds in the morning. Could this cause a problem, i.e. not retaining heat overnight. 3 - Is there anything I could cover the piping with so kids can still traverse the area without risk of accident.
Clay pavers would make a great thermal mass for holding the heat. The trick is getting that heat into the water. Check out the link back in comment 3. He holds the coils together with twine and steel wires (on the roof of a shed, but the principle applies). As a note, the more of the paver surface that is covered by pipes, the less solar energy get to the pavers, and the cooler they will be. There should be a happy medium somewhere there, however.
But if it's difficult to empty (6.1: "...I roll it around the yard to drain at season's end (the one problem with a spiral)...") isn't it difficult to fill? Don't you get an airlock in the top of each spiral? Or is your pump strong enough to push all the air round the spiral?
Hey, I use a shop-vac in reverse to blow the water out of my installation at the end of the year. Let it run 20 minutes or so. No water left in my system.
Awesome idea! I used a shop vac to drain off my pool cover before opening for the season, but never thought to use it to blow out the coil!
Hi have you considered not using a pump, but simply using the natural convection currents caused by the heating and cooling of the water as well as water pressure to push the water round the solar heater and back into the pool.
I tried using natural convection on mine and while it works, the flow is just too slow. It doesn't move enough water volume and so the net temp raise in the pool is pretty small. Of course, pumping it through the heater coil will increase the volume flow rate but will also decrease the heat absorbed by the water flowing through it. But the tradeoff is well worth it.
I agree on that - It does work but is slow. The term I have seen used is "thermal siphoning" and it can generate extreme heat, but with low flow rates. I saw someone post about using a set of three 45ga; drums as heater tanks, thermal siphoning one from the other, and having the last dump into their pool (but I can't locate the site now).
Hi Rob:
I really appreciate people like you who take time to help others. Thanks, . Here's some back atcha. Mass: Sand is excellent for absorbing heat but does not pack very good and the heater would have to be horizontal ...so use Mud. Either make it a thick soup, pour it on and allow it to dry or, esp. if there is a young child, make it clay-like and smooth it into the grooves and up to the level of the frame with him/her. ... little kids luv the mud. Pour sand over the top (after it is dried just a little bit) to improve the appearance, if you want. IF, for some reason, you must move the sucker, soak it and then hose-off the mud and roll away. Here, I can dig 18" - 24" and get all the clay-like dirt I want. Many places it is almost top-soil ... Think adobe homes. Cover it: 6mil clear ( translucent ) plastic does not tear very easily. Home/hardware stores carry it, typically as an exterior window covering, ground cover, vapor barrier(attic), etc. Cheap ... relatively speaking. It should be stapled/tacked or clamped to the frame every 15cm(6") or so. It will last a year or two before becoming brittle and prbly need replacing. (if it were me, i would wrap the plastic around the sides and staple it to the bottom or the sides. Or, if I had the time, just make a wood frame for it and attach that to the heater...) If you buy by roll, e.g., from a Home Depot, other hardware/home store, etc., it will be cheaper and if stored inside(no freezing) will last for many years to be used to replace the cover on the solar heater. ( 10'x 25' Clear 6MIL Plastic Sheet: 24 buck$(US) online at Lowe's[not a rec' for Lowe's... just example] ) Maintenance/Draining: First, The hose does not have to be 100% empty. You only need to make sure that there is no section which has a pocket that is full. ...a little frozen water inside won't hurt it as long as does not fill that section of hose. ... If you feel uneasy, rolling that monster can still be stopped with a pump and anti-freeze. Blow-out the hose with air then cycle anti-freeze through it. Save the anti-freeze and use it next year, and next & ... If really unsure, you can blow out the hose again to clear any full pocket. Even the little water that remains won't freeze. It comes to mind that the pump you use for the pool might be having that service already to make it winter ready. If not then it could be and just include the solar heater. Think submersible fish aquarium aquarium pump if you want to fix a anti-freeze recycling rig to do the job every year. ... One thing: *keep all kids and pets away from the anti-freeze*! It is sweet tasting and either might drink it and die. It is very poisonous. Dogs luv it. ... About the frame shape ... if you have to build another think hexagon or octagon. Pretty easily to build although a bit more time because you have to cut more to have equal length & mitered sides. ( Adding triangles to your current frame's sides might work to make an almost octagon ... ) ... Hope that increases your output and saves your back. Thanks again for sharing. C-ya
Wow! Thank allot for all that feedback...It could be an entire article on its own! I tried using poly (vapour barrier) last year but it tore off in a wind storm. I had just used staples. This year I plan to use wood strips stapled down to "frame" it, which might help. I think I'll try blowing out the coil using an air compressor in the fall, too. That might be a simple way to clear the coils well enough for winter storage.
I've seen a couple of different mentions on this thread about creating a termal mass, absorbing heat from pavers, filling with mud/sand, covering with plastic to block the wind, etc. I don't want to insult anyone's intelligence (sincerely I don't) but I wanted to clarify a couple of things on how these work to help everybody improve the efficiency of your system.
The water is heated by only one source of heat... the hot pipe through which it flows. However, there are two sources of heat that causes that black pipe to get hot. You need to be careful that in the course of changing one heat source you don't affect the other. The first heat source is solar radiation. This is the direct "sunlight" radiating energy into the pipe. I say "sunlight" but it's really not mostly coming from visible light and will still have an effect on a cloudy day. Think of the pipe floating in the cold vacuum of outer space. It will still heat up if exposed to the sun, even though there is no termal mass around it. This is why astronaut suits are white (in part) to reflect as much of the solar radiation as possible as compared to darker colors. The second heat source, which is entirely separate and independent of the solar radiation, is direct conduction of heat from whatever material surrounds the tube. Think of putting the pipe in the oven where this is no solar radiation. It will, obviously, still absorb heat and get hot. If your pipe coil is on a board, exposed to the air, with no clear plastic cover, the conduction heat transfer to the pipe will be minimal because the ambient air is only mildly warmer than the pipe and any wind will tend to cool it off. Painting the backer board black will help because it will absorb the solar radiation heat, and then conduct that heat to the pipe. So that's a little conduction heat. Covering the whole panel with a sheet of glass (or similar clear material) will help becuase it will help trap the hot air, causing the air to become somewhat "superheated" and increasing conducation to the pipe. However, any cover you put on the panel, even clear, will reduce the solar radiation to the pipe a little. A good, clear sheet of glass or plexi will improve conduction more than it will negatively impact radiation, but just beware that as it gets dirty, yellows with age, etc., the solar radiation impact becomes more severe. If you were to paint the glass black, you would block all the radiation for example. This is exactly the same effect as burying the pipe in say 2" of black mud. If the pipe is completely buried you will eliminate direct solar radiation heating of the pipe. However, now the mud itself is heated from solar radiation and has the further benefit of having a greater "thermal mass" than what used to be air around the pipes meaning that it just doesn't cool off as easily. This is why the brick pavers stay hot into the evening, because they have a substantial thermal mass and don't cool easily and quickly like the ambient air does. So, surrounding the pipes with mud, or sand, or whatever, will increase the thermal mass around the pipe and improve conduction, but will eliminate radiation heat transfer. At northern lattitudes where solar radiation is reduced anyway, this is probably a good tradeoff. In Colorado where I live, and at high altitudes where the air is relatively thin and the solar radiation is particularly intense, this is a bad tradeoff. There are a number of solutions to this. One, you could only bury the pipe half way, or maybe 2/3 deep. This would increase the thermal mass around them improving conduction but would leave a substantial surface area exposed directly to the sun for continued radiation benefits. Two, if you want to get really creative, you could bury them entirely but in a transparent material (I'm thinking gallons of clear epoxy) which would increase the termal mass around them but at the same time would not block much radiation. There are lots of other solutions I'm sure and again, depending on your geography, your normal air temperatures, or what you might use to bury the pipes in, the tradeoff may, or may not be worth it. Just beware as you make changes as to the effect you may have on both conduction heating as well as radiation heating since they are entirely independent of each other. Danny
Thanks for that most excellent clarification. In my case, as I was using plastic pipe. I packed the coils together as tight as possible to maximize the solar radiation exposure. I didn't need to paint the backing black, and probably would have done better painting it silver or white to reflect any solar radiation that passed by the pipes to reflect back. One issue with the plastic pipe is that is has pretty poor thermal conduction compared to metal, so relying on convection from a thermal mass wouldn't have worked well in my case.
My design is very similar to yours. Black plastic tubing attached to a plywood board. My tubing is spaced more loosely than yours and so I did paint the board black. 80% of my heating, if not more, comes from the solar radiation I'm sure. I'm hoping to make some tweaks this summer though. Pool goes up this weekend!
What is the consensus on the colour of the backer board? Is it better to paint it flat black or to use a reflective colour?
Another question I have is how critical is the angle of the panel? If most of the heat is radiation onto the pipe surface, I would guess the angle wouldn't be too critical as long as the pipes aren't spaced so closely that they shield the adjacent pipes from the sun. In my case (small yard) , it would be nice if I could mount the panel vertically on my fence.
I'd also like to point everybody to a great reference: The Integral Passive Solar Water Heater Book
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/WaterHeating/ISPWH/ispwh.htm that has allot of the theoretical basics as well as some great designs, many which could be applied to pool heating.
Thanks for this idea. I think your design is easy to construct and inexpensive. Having said that, I made one just like yours this weekend.
The only change I made was with the valve on the return line back to the pool. I went to the pool store and bought a 3-way divertor valve. I don't have an inline chlorinator, so I was able to screw the 3-way divertor valve directly into the valve body assembly of the filter where the return line was connected before. Now the valve is connected direct, the return line is connected to the other side of the valve and the solar heater is connected to the 3rd outlet of the valve. With the valve handle I can have full flow to the pool, full flow to the heater or any combination which works most efficiently. The only reason I was a bit reluctant on the "T" idea was that the water being returned to the pool from the filter would take the path of least resistence, hence how much water would never get to the heater. My thought was that diverting the water to the heater with a valve would be the ticket. Aynways, that's my input and once again, thanks for the great idea. Go Sens GO!!! Yes, I'm in Ottawa ![]() Gary
Great idea Gary. I was planning on doing the same thing. I don't understand why you would pipe the solar heater directly to the pool instead of piping the solar heater to the return pipe. Estheticly it seems to me that it would look better.
Would you be able to take a picture of your system. I don't quite understand the way your diverter valve is installed.
Wow! I realized I had an error in my diagram. I had shown a diverter valve which i did not use. The diagram now shows that I have a T (1 1/2" to 3/4") and then a 3/4" ball valve. Hope that clarifies things.
This would require a T valve for the rturn from the heater, correct?
I did not tee in the return. I just have it pouring back into the pool. It can be seen clearly in the picture labeled "The Return". Because I am not valving the main line, I was worried a T return would just equalize the pressure and nothing would flow through the heater.
How much heat do you add? I set up my pool this weekend along with my ipswh and took some measurements to determine how much heat I'm able to capture and add to the pool. I'm curious as to your calcuations of the same to see if I may want to make changes to the flow volume rate, or perhaps other adjustments like to a larger diameter tubing. Here are my calculations
Pool temp - 54 degrees (Farenheit) Water temp out of the ipswh - 66 degrees Flow rate - .833 gpm (6 minutes for 5 gallons) Density of water 8.33 pounds per gallon 1 BTU equals the heat required to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree Farenheit. It was a sunny day and pretty warm, about 70F. I took the measurements about 2 hours before my "solar noon". If you run all that math... 12 degree F rise X (8.33 ppg * .833 gal per min) X 60 minutes you come up with almost exactly 5,000 BTUs per hour added to the pool. Of course it would be more when I get closer to solar noon and even more when it's closer to the summer solstice, but how does that compare to what others are seeeing? Am I undershooting what's possible with these ipswh's? Thanks, Danny
I had the time last weekend to do a few measurements. With "full" flow through the heater, I measures 10L in 28 seconds, and was seeing a temperature rise of 1.2 degrees C. I plugged the values in Excel, along with water density lookups, and thermal capacity lookups and determined I was getting 1.487kj/second. That converts to 5076 BTU/h, almost exactly the same as you. I then valved the flow through the heater down real low, and after allowing it to stabilize measured a temperature rise of 16 deg C (WOW!) at a tiny rate of 1L/35 seconds. That calculates as 1.901kj/second or 6487BTU/hour. The higher flow rate obviously wasn't maximizing my heat transfer. I'll retest later in the summer a a variety of flow rates, and hopefully get up a graph...
Rob
There's something not quite right about your calculation. the difference between 10litres in 28s raised by 1.2 degrees compared to 1Litre in 35seconds raised by 16 degrees is about 7% more energy for the low flow rate, not 28% (6487BTU versus 5076). And that 7% would be almost exactly cancelled out by a 0.1 degree low reading error in the temperature rise for the high flow rate So the apparent difference may simply be experimental error.The literature seems to suggest higher flow rate is better than low to avoid stagnation - as the flow rate is reduced (or the inlet temperature increases) there is a maximum temperature the heated water can get to (where the losses due to convection and conduction equal the gains from the solar energy) and slowing the flow rate further won't further increase the outlet water temperature. As you say, it will be interesting to get more than two points on the graph. But the energy transfer will be affected by the inlet temperature, so you need to record that too. And for very slow flow rates record the air temperature because that will largely determine the plateau temperature. But, nice work! HTH Ian
I would put more faith in the accuracy of the low flow reading, as it is much easier to measure a large temperature differential than a small one, as least with my equipment. It also looks like a math error. When I recalculate the 1.2 degree rise, I get 6091 btu/h. not the 5076 I had noted earlier. This makes the two reading effectively the same within range of experimental error. Thanks!
Intuitively I wouldn't really expect to see much difference between the high and low flow rates down to a point, all other things being equal. In either case, high or low flow rate, the inlet water temperature on an intensive sunshine day will be low relative to the energy absorbed by the IPSW. Therefore, in either flow rate case the IPSW should absorb all the solar energy available. Actually, not all available, but rather all the energy that it's capable of absorbing. Getting down into really slow flow rates we'll run into different effects like Ian suggests, but short of that my assumption is it ought to be relatively close. Slow flow rates do have the advantage of more accurate measurements both in terms of temperature change and duration of test. The other advantage of low flow rate is lower inlet pressure, and thus lower back pressure on the pump and longer pump life.
The big test that I wonder about, though, is 1/2" vs. 5/8" vs. 3/4" tubing. But I don't have the money to buy three different sets of tubing to test.
#24.1.1.1.1
Danny
on
2007-06-25 14:33
(Reply)
Rob,
Can you post an Excel file spreadsheet on this blog? If so, I can send you one (though you probably already have one) that can accept either metric or English measurements and spit out BTUs per hour or other conversion like Joules per minute or whatever.
#24.1.1.1.2
Danny
on
2007-06-25 14:37
(Reply)
is it necessary to attach the roof hose into the filter hose, can i just free pour the water thats in the pipe right into the pool, how dirty does the water get inside that hose, fill i be able to fill the hose with a garden hose, once i drain it into the pool, is there enough pressure,
thanks for your help, new at this louis
Hi Louis - I'm not 100% sure what you are asking. Can you provide a bit more information?
I tried putting the hose on top of my shed because the felt on there would probably collect quite a bit of heat - but if you only have a filter from an intex 'easy set' pool like me, it won't be powerful enough to get up there! (As I found out today...)
I tried to get it going by siphoning but that doesn't work either. It's in circles, not in zig zags down, which would probably help but would be very difficult to mount without putting holes in the roof of my shed. Tomorrow I'll be taking it back down again and mounting it on something at ground level, like Rob suggested, and like I should have done in the first place!
Interesting thread and solution. I am looking at your idea of using a coil of black plastic to make an in-attic pool heater. I've been thinking about this for some time and with at least one commercial unit on the market, there has to be an easy diy solution here. Not being an engineer (but a good tinkerer) I am still working out the details. I am thinking of a six foot tall three foot in circumference coil of 3/4 flexible pipe-about 720 feet total with air space between the coils-with a fan to force the hot attic air (which I have an abundance of) through to help heat my 18X36 in-ground 27k gallon pool-which spends most of morning blocked fron the sun by trees in the east and the late afternoon blocked by the house in the west. The roof is the only ting on my property (exept for the trees) that gets full sun, so I could also help with the a/c by lowering the attic heat load. Any engineering thoughts on this would be appreciated. Oh, you might want to plumb your pipe to the bottom of the pool to help heat the whole pool-letting all of your solar heated water sit on the surface lets the heat dissipate without warming the rest of the water-remember heat rises.
Bob
I like your design Rob. But I am concerned that running the pool pump all day may be overkill to clean the pool and extremely expensive. My pump is 8.8 Amps, about 1100 W. Im thinking of using a much smaller pump to circulate the water just during the peek hours, has anyone tried this? can anyone suggest a pump?
thanks Andrew
Well... I don't run my pump all day, as it is a full size pump as well. I only need to run the pump for about 3.5 hours to circulate all the water through the filter, so I have it on a block heater timer coming on at 11am and turning off at 3pm. This happens to line up with the best heating times as well. If I don't need the heat I just valve off the heating coil and change the timer to tun at night. I don't off-peak electricity rates where I live, but it makes me feel better
Having read through all the posts, one thing I haven't seen covered is the question of tubing size. If my math is correct, dropping to 1/2 inch tubing from 1 inch drops the surface area by half but only flows 1/4 the water volume. In theory four 1/2 inch tubes in parallel should provide twice the surface area for a given volume of water relative to using a single 1 inch tube.
So I guess the question is whether it's more cost/space efficient to have four parallel 1/2 tubes or two 1 inch tubes in series for a given heat output. Any thoughts?
Your math is all correct Dale. There is another factor though, that of the pump and the backpressure created by your choice of tubing. The more narrow the tube, and the longer the tube, the more pressure required from the pump to produce the desired flow rate. I used 1/2" tubing but my Intex pump is limited in that the max flow rate I can create through the heater is about 5 gal per 3 minutes. Too much back pressure. I would have been better off with 3/4" or 1" for sure, but then it's quite a bit more costly. Four 1/2" tubes in parallel would flow the same volume (given the same flow rate) as a single 1" but would have double the visible surface area as the 1". That's why I went with the 1/2". More surface area yields more heating. But more flow yields more heating too.
Thanks Danny, that's what I thought. A bit of further math shows that it takes two 3/4 inch tubes to flow the same rate as one 1 inch tube, but has 50% more surface area. But using smaller hose means you end up with two or four times the amount of hose to get the same flow volume. The trade off is that you should get a greater percentage of the water flowing through a tube in contact with the surface. The other factor is the wall thickness of the tubing. I'm thinking that 1/2 inch irrigation tubing is going to be of thinner construction than 1 inch poly pipe. Wouldn't that aid in heat transfer? One last thing, I ran across a commercial product that looks almost identical to what we're trying to do: http://www.gullsolar.com/index.php?page=suncoil Unfortunately they don't provide any details of the pipe sized involved.
My son counted 22 wraps of pipe in the picture on the website, the overall diameter is stated as 2m and the core diameter I reckon is 0.5m scaling from the OD, all of which makes the pipe about 34mm OD. Here in the UK I can find 32mm irrigation pipe for sale. The area of a 2m diameter circle is about 3 square metres. To make the same 3m2 projected area of a linear length of 32mm pipe, that makes it just under 100m length of pipe.
Hello everyone, I come from Trenton FL
To start off, I went with 1/2" tube ( black ) about 500'. I have a easy set pool 18', and I run 2 pumps, one to filter the water and one just to run the solar. Now my set up is I have 450' of hose on the roof of my house, the catch is the house is 12' up in the air so it's hard to pump that high up, but it does work. I am only getting about 2-3 gallons per minute out of it due to the tube size and length as well as pumping 12' up. I have the solar return just dropping right into the pool on the opposite side from the intake. My results are as follows, on a normal partly sunny day about 85-90 degrees the pool was staying 78 degrees, after installing this the intake was 78 and the return from the solar was 112 ! this was taken with a digital thermometer. I have run this now for 2 days from 11am to 4pm and the water in the pool is sitting at 83 degrees ! my goal is for the pool to be about 86, this is nice for the kids and wife, I myself would like it right where it is now. I can't wait for a nice hot summer day with full sun to see what I can get from the solar return. Just so you know all I did was lay the tube on the roof. I would have never come up with this idea if it wasn't for the people here, thanks alot ! Ice
I havn't read anything in this blog about using differant size copper tubing painted black. Is the side wall of the copper tubing thiner than that of the irrigation tubing? And does the painting of the tubing insulate the pipe or will it get just as hot with no paint? I know that you wanted to keep it cheap but if anyone is going to build one and can inve |